Premium for higher grade games

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by Startyde on Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:28 pm

bassman8866 wrote:I think we need to revisit this topic. Iv been talking to Jim Jupiter about this and Id like to get your opinions. At what point is getting a game graded worth it? If a game gets 75 or less then you probably wont be able to sell it at face value, and on top of that you just spent 30-50 bucks getting a game graded. I dont believe its worth it. I personally have 2 games, 1 an 85 and 1 an 80. The 80 looks better than the 85 and on top of that I cant even see flaws. Dont get it but I can be convinced if someone says something that makes sense.

The process is too subjective and the results highly suspect (and I refer only to VGA at this point) to take them with any legitimacy, imo. That and once I saw that a case fresh, uncirculated Metal Gear Solid only received a 90, I didn't care anymore because like you, I would spend too much time wondering why my gem mint game received minuses at all.

Besides, I feel the majority of people buy VGA games just for the number, but if the grading is suspect then what's the point. Say you have game A, and it has some microscratches, so it gets a 80. Now another game has a spot of poop on it (yes, like dog poop) but it isn't weighed as much as a negative so it gets an 85. Well gee, grats on the bidding war but in the end you paid more for a game with poop because some dude thought it should be graded higher.

Ridiculous example, but the case still stands. Creases vs cratches, sunfading vs uneven sides. It's all a gamble, and peopel put too much faith in the graders to make the right call.

The only example I can think to grade a game is a brand new game just released, like MGS4 I see now and again. Casing it up would prevent any wear from occurring this moment on, and essentially you are keeping factory fresh games, factory fresh from now on. Every day you don't is another day some undetectable blemish is sure to rear it's non detectable head.
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by striker on Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:02 pm

I'll bet if you pulled a sealed game right off of the assembly line they would still find a reason to give it 85. Off the shelf @ wal-mart would be a 80. And if 80 + is considered \"case fresh\" why have a 95 or 100 rating at all? No game in existence will ever get that high by their standards.


Last edited by striker on Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by rarebucky on Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:03 pm

bassman8866 wrote:I think we need to revisit this topic. Iv been talking to Jim Jupiter about this and Id like to get your opinions. At what point is getting a game graded worth it? If a game gets 75 or less then you probably wont be able to sell it at face value, and on top of that you just spent 30-50 bucks getting a game graded. I dont believe its worth it. I personally have 2 games, 1 an 85 and 1 an 80. The 80 looks better than the 85 and on top of that I cant even see flaws. Dont get it but I can be convinced if someone says something that makes sense.

Tom posted a detailed reply on NA about it, but basically, anything 80 and above is either case fresh or what we all consider "mint". A corner or 2 peeking through the wrap will get you an 85. One corner peeking through a bit more with some wear will get you a 80 (as will a crease or 2 in the box). 90 is absolutely perfect, pristine.

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by rarebucky on Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:05 pm

striker wrote:yea I would never pay VGA to grade my games for that exact reason. Who made them the authority anyways? They are self-established, why their opinions (yes they are opinions) about the condition of a game are any better than anyone elses is a mystery to me. They throw in a couple of lines about condition and expertise and people are quick to believe they are experts.

Well that's your opinion but if you've used them you'll know that they know their shit. I am not the biggest fan of grading but I do believe it will help our hobby in the long run, especially with all of these near-professional reseals appearing. These guys are VERY good at detecting reseals, I can tell you that for a fact.

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by Dark Sol on Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:32 pm

Startyde wrote:
bassman8866 wrote:I think we need to revisit this topic. Iv been talking to Jim Jupiter about this and Id like to get your opinions. At what point is getting a game graded worth it? If a game gets 75 or less then you probably wont be able to sell it at face value, and on top of that you just spent 30-50 bucks getting a game graded. I dont believe its worth it. I personally have 2 games, 1 an 85 and 1 an 80. The 80 looks better than the 85 and on top of that I cant even see flaws. Dont get it but I can be convinced if someone says something that makes sense.

The process is too subjective and the results highly suspect (and I refer only to VGA at this point) to take them with any legitimacy, imo. That and once I saw that a case fresh, uncirculated Metal Gear Solid only received a 90, I didn't care anymore because like you, I would spend too much time wondering why my gem mint game received minuses at all.

Besides, I feel the majority of people buy VGA games just for the number, but if the grading is suspect then what's the point. Say you have game A, and it has some microscratches, so it gets a 80. Now another game has a spot of poop on it (yes, like dog poop) but it isn't weighed as much as a negative so it gets an 85. Well gee, grats on the bidding war but in the end you paid more for a game with poop because some dude thought it should be graded higher.

Ridiculous example, but the case still stands. Creases vs cratches, sunfading vs uneven sides. It's all a gamble, and peopel put too much faith in the graders to make the right call.

The only example I can think to grade a game is a brand new game just released, like MGS4 I see now and again. Casing it up would prevent any wear from occurring this moment on, and essentially you are keeping factory fresh games, factory fresh from now on. Every day you don't is another day some undetectable blemish is sure to rear it's non detectable head.
You speak my words lol! :top:
Exactly my thoughts.
I told it numerous times and i will tell again.
As a preservation tactic grading is good! Awesome!
But as the rest - it's nothing but a VERY subjective service not worth the effort at all.
Artificially hijacking the prices of SAME games is the only thing that it does.
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by bassman8866 on Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:35 am

I like the cases though... I dont like how you cant remove them from the cases unless you dont get it graded. I dont understand at all how a 90 is case mint fresh. What does that mean? they are really inconsistent and for new collectors 80 sounds bad.

I think anything less than a 90 will make a new collector back away from a game.
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by jim.jupiter on Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:24 am

one thought that comes to my mind about the whole grading issue is that there might be a high risk of fraud. say, someone gets a game graded at 80. pulls it out of the vga case, replaces it with a worse condition copy and sells it on ebay as vga80. presto. and this probably can even be done for a couple of times..

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by yobo on Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:31 am

jim.jupiter wrote:one thought that comes to my mind about the whole grading issue is that there might be a high risk of fraud. say, someone gets a game graded at 80. pulls it out of the vga case, replaces it with a worse condition copy and sells it on ebay as vga80. presto. and this probably can even be done for a couple of times..

you cant get the games out w/o it being noticable. Plus with ebay's new policies and buyer protection its not worth it anymore. If someone were to go through this much trouble then they would do it in the card or comic market where it is easy to get the item out and not the game market. And then risk fraud charges after all that. You have a better chance of robbing a bank and getting away then this.

And lets please get this thread back to topic..

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by rarebucky on Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:42 am

bassman8866 wrote:I like the cases though... I dont like how you cant remove them from the cases unless you dont get it graded. I dont understand at all how a 90 is case mint fresh. What does that mean? they are really inconsistent and for new collectors 80 sounds bad.

I think anything less than a 90 will make a new collector back away from a game.

It just depends on what the baseline is. Basically, nothing will get a 95, so if you accept that 90 is the highest possible grade a 80 really is an excellent score. The whole idea is that scoring is across the board uniform, so when you buy an 80 you know exactly what you're getting - a very close to mint game with extremely minor flaws.

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by rarebucky on Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:43 am

bassman8866 wrote:I like the cases though... I dont like how you cant remove them from the cases unless you dont get it graded. I dont understand at all how a 90 is case mint fresh. What does that mean? they are really inconsistent and for new collectors 80 sounds bad.

I think anything less than a 90 will make a new collector back away from a game.

It just depends on what the baseline is. Basically, nothing will get a 95, so if you accept that 90 is the highest possible grade a 80 really is an excellent score. The whole idea is that scoring is across the board uniform, so when you buy an 80 you know exactly what you're getting - a very close to mint game with extremely minor flaws.

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by yobo on Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:23 am

People have very high expectations of their games overall. Everyone says their games are "perfect, flawless" yet their scared to know the truth that their game is actually only 75/80/85 condition. Ive passed on some of the games that other forum members have won because I know that they are not better then a 80 condition yet when the game arrives to the winner, you see posts of how their new game is "gem mint". Over-grading is very common in this hobby and the fact is that most people are either not honest when explaining the flaws or just dont know what to look for.

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by rarebucky on Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:04 am

Right, which is the whole reason grading came about in the first place - to have a uniform way of telling a game's condition. You know what you're getting with a VGA 80 and 85. You won't have surprises like a smooshed top flap and stuff. I frowned on the whole idea at first but have come to embrace it. The fact of the matter is the sealed collectors shelling out big bucks these days are either getting their games graded or are actively buying them (no replies needed on this - you forum members know who you are). All in all, it's a good thing for our hobby. And the games display beautifully.

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by striker on Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:29 am

I don't like how VGA get's to judge though, they shouldn't be allowed to set the standards as they see fit. EG, box damage may be more important to me than shrink wrap damage, but it may be different for someone else. An 85 to me may be an 80 to someone else and a 75 for someone else, maybe a 90 for someone not picky. Why are we forced to follow by the VGA rules?

It's fine if they state EXACTLY what the flaws are, i.e. list "shrink wrap curved in x position" or "box slightly creased in y position", but to just slap an 85 rating on it and send it back is ridiculous and I'll never grade a game w/ them because of it.
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by yobo on Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:35 am

Well how would you tell this to the people who grade coins, comics, cards etc.? Would you rather trust someone out to make a quick buck from you or have the knowledge that you are getting a honeslty graded item?

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by bassman8866 on Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:48 am

Understand that we are all in the beginning of this. Once it blows up bigger and more reliable grading companies will get into it.
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by Dark Sol on Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:18 am

bassman8866 wrote:Understand that we are all in the beginning of this. Once it blows up bigger and more reliable grading companies will get into it.
Noone will bother. It's not worth the effort and no real business. Very Happy
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by rarebucky on Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:13 am

striker wrote:I don't like how VGA get's to judge though, they shouldn't be allowed to set the standards as they see fit. EG, box damage may be more important to me than shrink wrap damage, but it may be different for someone else. An 85 to me may be an 80 to someone else and a 75 for someone else, maybe a 90 for someone not picky. Why are we forced to follow by the VGA rules?

It's fine if they state EXACTLY what the flaws are, i.e. list "shrink wrap curved in x position" or "box slightly creased in y position", but to just slap an 85 rating on it and send it back is ridiculous and I'll never grade a game w/ them because of it.

Well that's your loss then. No one's forcing you to do anything. Maybe if you tried out the service you'd have a different opinion. Their grades are VERY consistent.

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by striker on Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:38 am

Yea well I'm not gonna pay an "expert" to tell me what I already know. If I want the acrylic case, I can get it for cheaper from them.
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by Startyde on Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:16 pm

rarebucky wrote:Maybe if you tried out the service you'd have a different opinion. Their grades are VERY consistent.

That's the problem. Everyone and their mother gets 80-85. Might as well go back to just saying "Mint."
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by Dark Sol on Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:31 pm

no really, striker is right. Sending someone a game just to confirm that it's mint? LOL. I believe everyone have their own eyes to see what is mint what is not. And paying for a case and some crappy sticker with a number? well... i personally have other things to spend my money on... Smile
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by bassman8866 on Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:32 am

What if i sent a case of super mario galaxies straight from nintendo to be graded. If they gave me a 90 I would sue them
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by yobo on Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:54 am

The only thing that I dont care for is grading CD based games such as PS2, Wii, X-BOX etc. I understand that PS1 games can easily have cracks on the jewel case but on the clamshell cases an indentation is all your going to find if anything. Then again I dont collect anything in clamshell cases so I dont really care about it.

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by Startyde on Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:24 am

bassman8866 wrote:What if i sent a case of super mario galaxies straight from nintendo to be graded. If they gave me a 90 I would sue them

You would get 90U for uncirculated. See Metal Gear Solid 90U. It was from a case as well.
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by rarebucky on Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:40 pm

Startyde wrote:
rarebucky wrote:Maybe if you tried out the service you'd have a different opinion. Their grades are VERY consistent.

That's the problem. Everyone and their mother gets 80-85. Might as well go back to just saying "Mint."

That's not true. You might think that because the ones people send to get graded are really only mint condition games, but I have a few 75s and they are very nice as well. The average sealed game you see on ebay would get you around a 70. People won't send in games to get graded that have severe flaws. 85 is dead mint.

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Re: Premium for higher grade games

Post by bassman8866 on Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:52 pm

85 is not dead mint.

I dont trust VGA, it seems like premier games has a contract with them. Im sure they just bump up the grades for them.
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Re: Premium for higher grade games

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